Wichita State looking into women’s basketball transfers

[bleed yellow]

It ain't over.. Wow.

[Aargh]

From the above-linked article:

An open-records request by The Eagle revealed that Scherz did not prepare a written report and no recordings were made at the May 4 meeting.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

When the investigator doesn't provide a written report, it's usually because the investigator was INSTRUCTED not to provide a written report.

So, at the meeting to determine what action should be taken, we had a fact-finder with nothing but her notes, an attorney doing everything legally possible to protect the university, and an attorney doing everything possible to protect the coach. That's 2 attorneys whose interests do not lie with the student-athletes, and one investigator who was attempting to be neutral. This just strikes me as a way to guarantee a pre-determined result from the investigation.

Also from the linked article:

WSU has made a change in oversight of women’s basketball by handing that responsibility to executive director of athletics Eric Sexton

If the reports from multiple former players are to be believed, going to Sexton accomplished nothing, except to make Adams angry.

The example I recall is that a player got thrown against a wall and pinned there by an assistant coach's forearm. As I recall that report, two players who observed the alleged assault were not allowed to go to the meeting with Sexton. Both Adams and the assistant coach who allegedly assaulted the player went to the meeting. Both coaches denied the incident ever occurred, and the player ended up having to apologize (in front of Sexton) for making a false report and admit that she made up the entire story and was lying.

Allowing the players to go directly to Sexton probably doesn't do much for parents of players to show trust in how the university was handling the situation.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but the entire "investigation" seems more focused on protecting Sexton and Adams than anything else.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

[shockmonster]

What do you expect? It's girls basketball. From the evidence that has been submitted, it sounds like two sides having very different opinions about the circumstances of the last 4-5 years. Some players back Coach Adams and the staff and others are on the opposing side. Physical abuse has to be proven (as at Rutgers where the coach was video taped), and not just alleged. Aargh is good at submitting a conspiracy but what the proof that I've seen is not even closes to that. If Randy Smithson had just won three MVC Titles, when the allegations broke out against him, he may have kept his job. If JA had not been successful, she may have been let go too. Either way, without proof of physical abuse against the JA staff, WSU is on the hook for her entire salary if she is fired. That is why her lawyers were at the meeting.

Whenever personnel is being discussed, WSU lawyers will be at the meeting too and a written report is subject to open records scrutiny and the media. There is nothing unusual about that. Finally, a plan of action to rectify the mistakes that JA has made has obviously been put into action and closer scrutiny has been implemented. This plan plus a reprimand (written or verbal) may have been added to JA's file. We don't know everything that has been done. The NCAA will only get involved if rules have been broken.

[shockswsu]

Shockmonster--
As to the content of your post, I would like to invite you to focus more on the emotional abuse than the single episode of physical abuse. "Hostile work environment" is a common area for claims in the area of employment law. It seems to me that the bulk of the complaints against HCJA fall in this area.

As for the comments I see in various places that it is simply a matter of conflicting views of what the truth is,(I think that Dr Bardo even presented it this way.) I propose that that is not a valid conclusion. For example, suppose that I broke into the house of my neighbor to the south and stole all of their electronics, but did not do that to my neighbors to the north. If after that, the police investigated and my two sets of neighbors had opposite reports about my behavior, the police would never even consider reporting that it was just a conflict of opinion. I would be reported as a thief, for sure. In the case of HCJA, it is not just a conflict of opinion, either. MANY of her former athletes over the past 7 years report clearly abusive behavior and an extremely hostile work environment, often taking place behind closed doors in her office. The fact that a few former players state she has had a positive impact on them in no way diminishes the behavior that she has demonstrated with the many.

[ShockdaWorld]

Just my personal opinion, but unless someone here was actually there, none of us know for sure what really happened in any given situation. I've never been a college athlete, but I feel like this could happen at nearly any level. Yes, I have seen coaches that go well beyond being just tough or hardnosed coaches, to the point of being abusive, and I believe whole heartedly that those coaches should be disciplined accordingly. However, I've also seen athletes (along with their parents) who for whatever reason (lack of playing time, perceived favoritism, politics) had a personal agenda against a coach and when their agenda was not met by the school board, they took it as far as the state athletic association, where they were again proven to have invalid complaints. I do not know if HCJA is absolutely 100% guilty of what her accusers are saying, or if she is 100% innocent. I'm guessing it's somewhere in the middle and that none of us who weren't there will ever know what that actual percentage is one way or the other.

[boyshocker]

Have tried to stay neutral on this but two things concern me...the lawyers interviewing the players with the players not having any representation of their own and the univ. rep not having a written report. This just seems quite out of the ordinary. Whether there is any truth to the allegations or not, to me this does not look good for the AD and the department as a whole.

[shockmonster]

Looking at this situation from a leadership perspective, Dr. Bardo had three options.

1. Fire JAdams' Staff (this would be obvious if the staff is involved in physical abuse-Emotional abuse has different degrees of guilt and is more difficult to assess and prove).
2. JA made mistakes and place her JA on a Plan of Assistance
3. Announce JA's innocence

Dr. Bardo opted for #2. This is a reasonable assessment imo. No written report is subject to debate and I would say that both sides would have a reasonable opinion.

Note: Emotional abuse is difficult to assess. We all have different opinions about what constitute emotional abuse. I would imagine that Gregg has committed emotional abuse on occasions that parents would not appreciate if they were to witness it. I don't know much about girls and emotional abuse but I would suspect that they are more likely to have a problem with it. I will add that military trainers commit emotional abuse on a daily basis. Some would say "Get over it and move on" and others would want them to get counseling.

[shocka khan]

Looking at this situation from a leadership perspective, Dr. Bardo had three options.

1. Fire JAdams' Staff (this would be obvious if the staff is involved in physical abuse-Emotional abuse has different degrees of guilt and is more difficult to assess and prove).
2. JA made mistakes and place her JA on a Plan of Assistance
3. Announce JA's innocence

Dr. Bardo opted for #2. This is a reasonable assessment imo. No written report is subject to debate and I would say that both sides would have a reasonable opinion.

Note: Emotional abuse is difficult to assess. We all have different opinions about what constitute emotional abuse. I would imagine that Gregg has committed emotional abuse on occasions that parents would not appreciate if they were to witness it. I don't know much about girls and emotional abuse but I would suspect that they are more likely to have a problem with it. I will add that military trainers commit emotional abuse on a daily basis. Some would say "Get over it and move on" and others would want them to get counseling.

If it were my child, I would fight tooth and nail to make sure they were treated fairly. However, life isn't always fair, once the deicision was made to transfer, I would be focused on getting the best deal academically for my child.

We all have bad things happen to us during our lifetime. We can't protect our children from every peril out there. The mark of a person's resiliancy is how they handle the bad things that life throws at them. Focusing on the future and moving on in a positive way is much healthier than hanging onto past grievances.

And you're 100% correct, shockmonster, emotional abuse is relative, and dependent on how the person receiving the 'abuse' processes it.

[shockswsu]

Shockmonster--These are all very good points, and I certainly understand your viewpoint. While I agree that without directly observing events we cannot be 100% sure that HCJA is guilty of the things these players are alleging, I also think that we can have a high degree of certainty that the descriptions are accurate. There are a few observations which make me say that. 1) Athletes who have never met, who played for her over a 7 year span, report eerily similar stories...down to the words which she uses. 2) The same type of stories surfaced at her coaching stays at UMKC and SIU. 3)The fact that the following people (and many others) have declined the "offer" to make any public statement defending the coach. WSU's first WNBA draftee, Alex Harden. WSU's only Wbb Academic All-American Marcy Sudbeck. Former trainers and conditioning coaches. You get the idea....

[shockswsu]

Shocka khan--While it is certainly a parent's right to cut losses and move on after the athlete decides to transfer, it seems to me that an approach of continuing to expend effort in order to prevent future abuse of OTHER people's kids can be viewed as an altruistic act. So, just a different way of interpreting things.

[1972Shocker]

If it were my child, I would fight tooth and nail to make sure they were treated fairly. However, life isn't always fair, once the deicision was made to transfer, I would be focused on getting the best deal academically for my child.

We all have bad things happen to us during our lifetime. We can't protect our children from every peril out there. The mark of a person's resiliancy is how they handle the bad things that life throws at them. Focusing on the future and moving on in a positive way is much healthier than hanging onto past grievances.

And under normal circumstances I would assume that the great majority of the 20 to 23 players involved and their families would have, in fact, followed the exact path you have laid out. The fact that so many of them have not been able to just " let it go" is in and of itself perhaps an indication of how miserable things were for these players while at Wichita State. Having so many players and families just not willing to let this go and focus on the future is certainly not a very common occurrence.

However, going to the NCAA with complaints of a hostile environment is probably not going to do much good. Specific rule violations? Maybe but I doubt their is much meat on that bone. Very difficult to prove practice time violations unless a player maintained a meticulous record of such violations. The DOBO participating in coaching activities -- probably in DE's 1st year but again can you prove it. Even if you can it probably would not result in the kind of accountability these former players and their families would like to see.

I could be wrong about the NCAA being an effective avenue though. We will just have to see.

Are their other avenues open to these players and families? Probably, but at some point they probably will take your advice and turn to focusing on the future and putting his unpleasantness behind them. But clearly the level of frustration and anger being exhibited is quite unusual.

[boyshocker]

A little reach but could 'lack of institutional control' somehow be used here?

[ShockdaWorld]

A little reach but could 'lack of institutional control' somehow be used here?

I think this is way beyond "a little reach".

[shockswsu]

You're probably right that it doesn't meet "lack of institutional control" YET. With 7 admitted recruiting violations though, if further violations occur, it would quickly meet the standard for lack of control. If I remember correctly, Jody Adams was the recruiting coordinator at Minnesota when their program was involved in what was at the time the most egregious collection of recruiting violations in NCAA women's basketball history. I haven't been able to find a source to either confirm or refute that her time as recruiting coordinator there exactly coincided with the violations, but I would welcome information that anyone else could find.

[shockmonster]

You're probably right that it doesn't meet "lack of institutional control" YET. With 7 admitted recruiting violations though, if further violations occur, it would quickly meet the standard for lack of control. If I remember correctly, Jody Adams was the recruiting coordinator at Minnesota when their program was involved in what was at the time the most egregious collection of recruiting violations in NCAA women's basketball history. I haven't been able to find a source to either confirm or refute that her time as recruiting coordinator there exactly coincided with the violations, but I would welcome information that anyone else could find.

My final comment on this shockswsu is that when former parents (I would guess that you are a former player or parent) and players demand an investigation (which was merited), and then after an investigation is made, and the parents disagree with the results, they should say so and then move on. What the parents/players actually demanded was that the University fire their coach and nothing else would do. Instead of making the program better for the players, and university, they are in effect, asking for revenge. I don't know the future of the womens basketball program(which I support) or JA (who I don't care one way or the other) but that attitude doesn't sit well with me.